Taking Cues ft. Sarang Sathaye

"The younger generation will come back to theatre in big numbers if we start listening to them and representing them" Sarang Sathaye, co-founder of BhaDiPa on how theatre makers need to be more aware of the world, on how it's time for theatre to change, and to really take centre stage.

Okay we’ll start with a tough one. Now that you are a celebrated media professional, what is your relationship to theatre currently?

In his element

Well, I spend a lot of time on stage - at least three to four shows a month I do solo performances. That is my Marathi stand-up.

But maybe once a year I perform something related to theatre per se. Currently, I'm more of a theatre supporter. I watch theatre a lot.

And in the last few years, have you watched any theatre performances that you remember?

I've seen a lot of Akvarious plays. Akvarious and Aasakta plays, whatever comes up, I have to watch it. It's almost like a family function.

And recently, I’ve started watching a lot of new Marathi plays. And that’s because many good Marathi actors are turning back to theatre instead of films. Whether it be Priya Umesh, Sakhi Gokhale, Suvrat Joshi and many, many others who have sort of got into a habit of producing one play every three years.

And they travel with it quite a bit. And that too for money-earning purposes, which is quite fascinating. So I’ve started watching those.

How different is it from when you started?

There were money-earning plays, but they were mostly getting older audiences. And because of that, the plays were targeting older people or they used to be out-and-out comedies.

But now younger conversations have seeped into commercial Marathi plays. Two plays that I saw about letting go a past relationship. I have seen plays around live-in relationships. I have seen plays around people being honest to their partners about what they really want from each other. Those kinds of conversations.

There is Varvarche Vadhu Var, Amar Photo Studio, Jar Tar chi Goshta. All with very, very young urban sort of representation.

You started in theatre 25 years ago now? How has your perception or your relationship with theatre changed over these 25 years? Because I'm assuming that even when you started, you would watch a lot of plays. So has anything shifted?

A scene from Aasakta's production of Garbo

When we came in and we started doing theatre, we were bringing in the change. In our heads, we were the people who are changing the way theatre is done in Marathi. And by we, I don’t mean just Aasakta or anything. Irawati was working from Mumbai, others elsewhere. Every pocket had their own new names, which were changing the rules of how theatre is perceived and conducted.

But soon you become the thing you're fighting. From bringing the change to becoming predictable.

I think that is where I dropped off from theatre too. But now I see other plays happening and watching them, I feel like, oh, there's a new wave coming. So I think we've seen an entire cycle of our generation.

And emotionally, what do you feel?

I feel quite distant right now. I don't feel so attached and so passionate about theatre as I used to. And I think that also has nothing to do with theatre. I think it has something to do with me and my journey. I've said this to many people in the past in many interviews - I like telling stories, I don't see myself as a filmmaker or a theatre person or a stand-up comic. I love telling stories in any format. So my moving on was natural.

But with most theatre, I do feel a little more distant than I used to. The only times when I feel extremely engrossed in theatre and passionate about it is actually when I watch theatre in small spaces. In really tiny 20-30-seater places. I prefer theatre as an intimate experience nowadays than anything else.

So the grandness of the proscenium has dulled for you?

The grandness of the proscenium. The only time I felt grandness is something I would go for was when I saw Hamilton in New York a year ago and I couldn't believe that this can happen. That this was a live experience.

Do you think that can ever happen in India or in Marathi theatre specifically?

Potentially, yes, 100%. But I don't think people are ready to take these kinds of financial risks, unfortunately.

They will do it in Hindi, they will do it in other languages. Honestly, I think regional productions of this scale will earn them more money. And that was another splitting point for me from theatre.

We attempted something not as evolved as Hamilton maybe. But as spectacular as Hamilton for sure. And at that point (2011/12) we didn't get the support no matter to whom we spoke to or approached.

And then we realized that if we want to go this way, then it's better that we tell stories in some other format. This was a play called Ek ani Takku che Pankha; a children's play written by Varun Narvekar. It’s a play I would like to produce or direct or something one day. It's like our answer to Alice in Wonderland, with a Marathi sort of approach about a child's mind. And I feel like it deserves the kind of spectacle that we see on bigger stages.

In other interviews, you've been asked many times about how your theatre experience has impacted your other business. And you've also said that you're a storyteller across media and across platforms. But I want to flip the question.

Gulbadan Talkies and Bharatiya Digital Party have been around for 10 years or so. You have teams, you have targets, you have finances, you have a CA, things like that. And you have developed processes. What do you think theatre people or the theatre ecosystem can borrow from this kind of structure or practice?

We have just started our 10th year, yes. And to answer your question - One thing for sure, 100% sure, is listening to the world. I think theatre people lack a lot on that front.

I think they are quite… Insulated. They are driven by nostalgia a lot. They are driven by classics a lot, like keeping something on a pedestal.

Millenials! With Chaitnya Sharma

And I think the more they start listening to the way people are talking, they will be able to access the younger generation, the Gen Zs and the Gen A. They would love theatre wholeheartedly because it's all about being in the moment. We think that the younger generation is addicted to digital. But it's actually millennials who are obsessed with social media. We are the ones who spend so much time on it. And the younger generation… I feel like they will come back to theatre in big numbers if we start listening to them and representing them, which the digital industry does well. It can be something that you want to say, but it also shouldn't be alienating, like it's only your story. There are so many people who go through similar experiences, theatre should be able to reach out to them.

I also think the style of expression needs to change. Akvarious comes close to this many times with a lot of plays, but… I also think the people who are writing the plays need to be younger. I think younger, newer playwrights should be celebrated way more than the older ones.

Is there a difference in the writing or in the mentality of writers for the theatre and writers for OTT and film?

Definitely. I feel writers for digital are far more precise with their expression. Theatre people are too indulgent. It's not even like poetry where you indulge just because you are playing with words. It's indulgent about, I want to say every possible thought I have. I think that because of the length that social media functions at, the precision is quite amazing.

I'll give you an example. There's this influencer - even Adhaar and all these guys love him - called Danny Pandit. He does sketch comedy. He will pick someone and imitate their traits.

And every line is a punchline. Every line has layers that give away more and more traits about his subject. He doesn’t just explain all of it.

On the surface of it, you might find it very shallow because it's a satire or a mockumentary. But actually he picks up on traits and aspects which you can really relate to, immediately.

And I feel like many theatre writers don’t realise how quickly an audience can grasp things if they are expressed with precision.

Let's shift gears now to a little bit of Akvarious.

In Poornaviram

So Akvarious happened because of dad. The PapaVarious. I had done a play called Poornaviram for Writers’ Bloc, by Sachin Kundlekar. Radhika Apte, Nachiket Purnapatre and I were the leads in it.

Somehow it got celebrated quite a bit and that’s when Rajju (Rajit Kapur) and Shernaz (Patel) and all of them sort of became my friends.

Akash sir had watched that play. And he approached Radhika and me for a film he was making at that time about young people from theatre.

Akarsh, Adhir, Radhika, me, this one guy from the Marathi theatre, Gashmeer Mahajani, and many more actors... Kalki was there in one shot. Ali was in one shot. Everyone from theatre those days was in that film.

Akarsh and I were playing roomies in college. I had to take him around Pune on my bike for a few shots. And of course, with Akarsh in that proximity, friendship will evolve.

Anyway. I was quite an intense guy at that time. Humor wasn’t my forte apart from with some friends. I think that’s why he asked me to be part of Baghdad Wedding.

In fact, that’s how I moved to Bombay also. Because Sumeet Vyas had also watched Poornaviram and was part of Baghdad Wedding, he asked me to act in Jungle Book. So with these two plays happening simultaneously, I decided to move to Bombay.

And since then, how many plays have you done with Akvarious?

Proximity alert!

After that I've done Bombed, Ugly One, and Stand Up. These are the four plays in which I have done more than 50 or 100 shows. But I have been part of many other plays, like Rafta Rafta, many others where I have been a replacement actor.

But these four plays are the ones in which I've acted properly, from the first show to the last show.

What did you bond over?

So two things we bonded over, and I think that's the beauty of Akvarious.

The first was how they don't judge you for what you are. They make a lot of fun of you. But they don't judge you for what you are. It is actually various people from around the country.

With Karan Pandit in Sometimes

For example, one of my closest friends to come out of Akvarious, apart from the Khuranas, is Cheeta, Chaitnya Sharma. I don't think our worlds would have collided ever if we were in Pune, or if we were working with some other theatre groups. Akvarious is a very mixed bag.

And I think being put in that mixed bag and allowing yourself to be exposed to other sort of cultures and other opinions was a great place to start.

And secondly, as I said, a lot of people have a lot of apprehension about how some Akvarious’s plays are very shallow. But I feel that they are at least the first step to representing the people whom theatre people don't attempt to represent ever.

For example, Sometimes was a super theatre play, and it was always looked at with the same lens as other, more formal plays. But it was meant to invite young people who won't go and watch a formal play. I appreciate that a lot. And that's why we ended up spending so much time together.

You’ve talked about your two big pillars in theatre – Aasakta and Akvarious. You also mentioned the word family, that it was a tradition kind of thing. Is that always a good thing? Theatre has always attracted the misfits, right? And there's a certain emotionality that gets attached to a lot of the work, and a lot of the relationships. So how did you navigate that?

It happens exactly like how it happens in ‘real’ families. You're born, you grow up a little, you feel like this is your family; your family is the best thing in the world, there’s nothing beyond my family.

Till you are a teenager, when you eventually realize there's a lot more to the world. I think everyone transitions from that phase.

But the founding pillars of t

he family - they can't do this. In any organization, the founders can't really leave the place abandoned. So organisations find structure and succession plans and upward mobility till retirement and so on.

But in theatre organisations - which is the part I don't like much - it's not about the seniors wanting to create place for the new generation and the new generation not accepting it. Most of the time, they don't want to create that place for the younger generation. They want to have a little more control. And maybe it's because theatre takes a lot more time to build than any other organization. It must be difficult, but people have to find a way out of this.

Last few questions. You write a lot, whether it's your own work for digital media, or whether it's film or OTT series and stuff. Is there a play that you want to write? Do you see anything that you are thinking about suiting the stage more than camera?

Yes, I have at times felt like this should be a play, stories that I've come up with. And I've felt in my heart like, “Oh, this should ideally be a play. Why am I thinking screen?”

And I think, if I find the right voice, I will write a play.

If I try to write right now, without finding the voice, I'm going to make the same mistake that I was accusing people of - overexpressing. With the kind of theatre I have done - with those long soliloquies and monologues, characters speaking the same line in different sort of contexts, five times in the same scene; with that kind of upbringing, I have a fear that I will also end up writing like that, which I do not want to do.

I was associated with one theatre group for a while, Natak Company, which tried to break the grammar in few of their plays but it didn't turn into a movement as such.

When I had developed my first ever play, I got it written. Then there were no writing softwares, formatting was not my forte, scribbling was my forte. So a friend of mine, Omkar Govardhan, used to write for me. I had done two plays, one play within a play, and a play called Kalap, when I was in college. And both had a very, very strange structure.

Kalap was about college politics. There was a scene where some goons come into a college hall to create some ruckus. One guy gets hit on the head with a bottle of beer and he's taken to the hospital.

And then there's a conversation inside the hall about what is culture.

That conversation, that script, used to be a new one every three or four shows. Because I would put in new actors or reshuffle the actors and they all had to play themselves. And they had to bring in their own cultural politics and their own backgrounds in the discussions. So it was herds (Kalap means herd) talking about their mentalities.

We have done shows in which there was this guy called Gaurav Bapat whose father was a BJP MLA. Another guy’s father was the editor of a newspaper. Then there were people who had toy shops and what not. So we used to mix these people up and see what evolved from their conversations. That was a fun exercise. I would like to do something like that.  

Speaking of group conversations. There are a lot of you who started in the theatre and have now become very successful in other media - from Aasakta, Natak Company, Theatron... Many friends who grew up and struggled together. When you meet, what is that conversation like?  

With Radhika Apte in Poornaviram

I talk a lot about theatre with Radhika (Apte). Amey and Nipun, we are very close friends, but we worked in two different theatre setups. Shivraj and Suraj and others are very young, I haven't done theatre with them, but with Radhika, I have long conversations. We spend almost half of whatever time we have in nostalgia, 25% in abusing people and 25% is actual work.  

Do you ever feel like there's merit in people like yourself and Radhika and others that we mentioned to do something together? Either on stage as a one off or, or something more long term because your hearts are in the theatre.

I feel it comes on three levels. Not every digital star is able to pull off ticket sales. That's a completely different conversion. That’s why people keep saying not to cast influencers in shows or films, because people are so used to watching them for free. It's not going to convert.

An early experiement in conversion. Shooting the play Stand Up for Zee 5.

However, there are a few names which are still convertible. For instance, I do believe that I should do a little more for theatre because I have been selling around 1000 tickets a month by just performing twice. So yeah, so if I'm able to do that conversion, why not for theatre? Suvrat Joshi is a prime example. Suvrat is an NSD graduate. He knows, he feels the importance of doing a lot more for theatre and he does that regularly.

Amey and Nipun did Amar Photo Studio very successfully for 500 shows. Which is a big number, and they took it internationally and things like that.

So some people have been doing it, but I haven't thought about unionising people and making something out of it. I haven't thought of it. I think it's a great time. If it has to be done, it has to be done in next couple of years. Because the OTT wave has faded and before the next big thing comes with AI or something, I think it's important to do this right now.

Coming to this conversation that you have with Kshitee Jog at the Akvarious Microfest at The Box in Pune. Is that also going to be 50% nostalgia, 25% bitching and 25% work?

The good thing is that there won't be any nostalgia. Me and Kshitee have only done 5 shows together.

Fun fact, Kshitee was my bench-mate for a week of punishment in primary school. She doesn't remember. I remember it because her father used to play a villain. And I used to be shit scared of him when he used to come to pick her up. Of course she doesn't remember it at all. But she was a star kid. How would I forget that?

Proof!

But I think after this conversation, she will know me better in the context of theatre. Because she only knows me from BhaDiPa. It will be a fun conversation for sure.

And finally, what do you wish for Akvarious for the next 25 years? 

Akvarious has glamorised theatre for me, going to places, taking theatre to places where theatre deserves to be. I think they have done that very well. And I would be happy if they go international soon. Actually, I would like to play a part in taking them international. That would really make me happy.

UPCOMING SHOWS

Theatre-chi Gappa

Kshitee Jog and Sarang Sathaye in an intimate, mostly-Marathi conversation about their personal journeys in theatre

July 29 | 12pm

The Box Hub, Pune

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About the weekend: Akvarious are celebrating 25 years of theatre. And while the anniversary is in December, we're doing loads of things all year long. One of the ambitious ideas is microfests, which are basically venue takeovers, where we do a whole of theatre and theatre related stuff and create a very packed weekend. The third one is this weekend at The Box in Pune. We're doing some theatre games, workshops, free events and discounted student passes as well. Swing by!