Some Sound Advice ft Varruun Bangera

"It's definitely gone ahead from “Can you just give me three phone calls and two door knocks” to being more thought out. Most directors ask me to come in, see what I feel, let me play around with moods and tones. And many also have specific rehearsals just to test ideas for the sound design." Varruun Bangera for once on the other side of the mic, on the intricacies of sound design, his favourites and his process.

Okay I’m going to start with the question on everyone’s mind. Can you clarify once and for all - for everyone who is reading this piece - what is feedback and how do you avoid it?

You walk away.

I don’t mean artistic feedback! You’re a sound designer. In terms of sound, what is feedback?

Good feedback?

Yes, I know, I know. I was making a joke. Sound guys can be funny, you know?

So, feedback is essentially a sound loop that gets created. When you speak into a microphone, your voice - which is a frequency - travels from you into the microphone, and it comes out of the speakers.

There are certain frequencies which, after coming out of the speaker, feed back into the microphone. In a loop.

How to avoid it is by carving out certain frequencies, because not all frequencies create these loops.

You can measure each frequency by length. A low-end frequency is in the range of 40 Hz, 50 Hz, 60 Hz. They are very long - one cycle is almost 100 feet.

And then you have high frequencies, like a crash drum for example. Those are shorter frequencies. And the room that you are in - its size, shape - that will dictate which frequencies can create that feedback or that loop.

So, you EQ. You find those particular frequencies and then carve them out during your technical rehearsal.

Thank you! How did you learn all this?

I did my diploma in sound engineering in 2014. From SAE in Bombay, which has now shut down. In 2017 I did a diploma course in Live Sound which was for about a year and a half.

And then in 2021, I felt the need to upskill. I did a Film Sound Design course, also a diploma.

I try and upskill as much as I can, whenever I get a chance to.

The thing with technical knowledge - you can do without it. But with it, you will just be able to do it faster and cleaner. You don’t need to figure out things on the job, especially given the constraints in the way we work here. For example, you may have a sound in your head and you are trying to get that out of your computer but you will struggle because you don't have the tools.

Another example, when using lapels or headsets for actors – it’s great to factor in their registers and frequencies. Or you will certainly get feedback when they get loud, or not be able to hear them when they get soft. If you don’t know how to do this, you’ll waste a lot of time at tech, or you will have a poor show.

So you’ve been doing this for over ten years. Is this a lucrative career?

Before he heeded the call. At Thespo 14, 2002.

It's not something that you can do full time. I do recordings at studios, a few ads, corporate shows. That kind of makes up the money. Theatre, you do because you like doing it. It keeps things interesting and keeps you going creatively.

And that’s my next question. It's also the norm for actors and directors and playwrights, to not earn from theatre. But they do it because they have something to say. Why do you do what you do?

Recording an actor's [Prerna Chawla] voice for a flashback sequence in It's a Wonderful Life

So that I can help them say it better, so that an audience sees it better.

Every once in a while, you get an opportunity to create something you are driving. Like a radio play.

But when it comes to regular plays, most times it's helping actors or directors be more effective in what they're saying.

Like in The F Word. I remember going for the reading the first time and wondering how he is going to direct this. Because it's just three people sitting and talking the whole time. And we’re so used to having these transitions and movements in theatre.

And I also wondered what the hell I can do. There was so little of what I was used to.

Once Akarsh had blocked the scenes and I had gone through the script a bunch of times, I realised that there was more than enough to do - even in terms of sound design. Sonically, there was so much opportunity to keep driving that play forward.

Whether it was building up a restaurant ambience to make the scene a little fuller, or... There's a sequence in the car... I thought of things passing by so there is a constant sense of movement. So they pass by a market, they pass by a school, they pass by a Metro. And having these elements keeps a certain energy and dynamism in the play.

The most recent example is 305 Galli Mantola. If you watch the play, you realise that there are multiple timelines that the play jumps between - 1940, 1980s and present-day.

Only when I read the script 4-5 times did I realise that the play is set in a place close to a railway station. And that's when a bulb went off! If it's close to the railway station, I can actually use sounds of the trains to demarcate which era we are in.

So, when you're in the present, you hear the metro. In the 40s, you hear a steam train. And in the 80s, you hear the normal train sound. It’s a not-overt-explanation that worked for everyone.

See, it's clearly a choice that the director has made where he didn’t want to explain what era we are in, he wants the audience to do the math for themselves. You want to align with that philosophy, that approach, but at the same time, maybe help the audience a little bit.

That’s really fun and rewarding, and that’s me saying something as well, through sound.

You used that word, sonically. I love that word. How do you deconstruct a play, or a brief, sonically? What’s your process?

First and foremost, I start with what I call the admin part of the sound design process. Which is identifying the literal soundscapes of the places you're in. So, outdoor market, interior room, etc, just chalking all of that out.

Then marking out the ‘local sounds’ that are either mentioned in the script or are hinted at in the script. So - doorbell, phone call, baby crying, stuff like that.

And then comes the thinking. Do I want to keep it small, just fill the scene? Or should it be something larger than life, something intrusive?

And that depends on the overall design of the play and approach of the director. If the set is minimal, it’s one set of choices; if the set is big, it’s another set of choices.

Laying tracks.

Some directors know exactly what they want. So, they will explain their idea and I’m free to disagree and put across a different point of view. And eventually we will decide what works best.

Other directors leave you to figure it out and then say what works for them and what doesn’t. Some don’t say that much also.

Anyway, back to the process. Once I know my approach and I’ve identified some tracks or effects, I start looking at how to layer it. Because you can’t have one track playing the same way for a 10-minute scene. I might add a musical instrument, a drone, a sub base, there are many options and I try to find one that fits the personality of the play and doesn’t distract from what’s happening on stage.

That’s really important. Sound, in most cases, is a support role, a small cog in the wheel. If the audience starts listening to the sound design because it’s doing too much, then I’ve failed. Actually, if the audience notices the sound design for any reason, I’ve failed.

There are times when I’ve worked out a design in rehearsal and then realised it’s way too distracting on the PA. So I cut it out, or play it so soft that you can feel it but not really hear it.

Tell me more about this sense of collaboration with the director? Because there must have been times when you wanted x and they wanted y and you really don’t have ‘control’ over the final product. How do you reconcile with that?

Warming up to each other. (L-R: Akarsh Khurana, Sidharth Kumar, Varruun Bangera)

I think one has to understand that there is a director and at the end of the day, you're trying to serve the director's vision.

If I'm working with a director for the first time and I have a less-than-good experience, then I know that, maybe this is not a director that I share an affinity with; we think too differently. Having said that, I've been doing this for a while now. So even during the initial conversation with certain directors, I can tell how many of them are talking big game and how many of them actually mean what they say. I guess just like in acting, I’m looking for honesty of intention and effort. And then I’m in for the ride.

Honestly, I don't stress out so much when I'm in situations like this. Projects get over. The next one begins. I may not have control over final output, but I have control over whether I want to work with this person again. That’s enough control for me.

And what about from the other side? What about people who want to work with you, or sound designers in general? Has that changed in the last 10 years?

This rehearsal is clearly enjoyable!

It's definitely gone ahead from “Can you just give me three phone calls and two door knocks” to being more thought out. Most directors ask me to come in, see what I feel, let me play around with moods and tones. And many also have specific rehearsals just to test ideas for the sound design. So they let me run the rehearsal and take cues and tweak stuff. It feels like there's enough room for me to play with. Makes me like the team and the work.

Even actors are a lot more responsive now. I guess when they see their directors taking this seriously, they automatically feel like this is something they should also include. I’ve had actors call me and ask me for specific pieces of music for them to get familiar with on their own time; they’re really respectful of the time it takes to EQ music or mics on stage. It’s quite great.

One thing that can change more, though. I really hope that more actors and directors and producers become open to the idea of using headset mics instead of ambient mics. There's a limitation with hanging mics and floor mics and gun mics, there’s only so much any sound engineer can do with those, you can only go that loud.

And, unfortunately, with a lot of younger actors who struggle to project, and hold their emotion while they project, ambient mics don’t do justice to the audience experience in proscenium shows. If the audience can't hear you, then it's all a bit pointless. So I hope more people open up to headset mics.

Now talk to me about acoustics. In terms of spaces that you've operated in. Because a lot of people say that a dead space is a good space. And there's a lot of money spent to deaden the sound in a space with materials that absorb sound. But then there are other materials that are used to bounce the sound further or bounce it back. What is all that about?

Acoustics in itself is a whole other area of expertise.

I don't particularly subscribe to the idea of a space being completely dead. Because I feel like that's a very unnatural thing. We don't experience that in our everyday life.

So, it can be a bit disconcerting for an audience to enter a space where you can suddenly hear yourself think.

It goes back to frequencies. If the frequencies bounce around so much that you end up getting a lot of feedback, you’ll want to deaden it to a point where you avoid that. But at the same time, you want to keep it a little live.

I'll give you an example. I was doing a show with RAGE in Kolkata at a venue called GD Birla. And we had ambient mics – hanging mics, floor mics. And we did a tech and everything was fine.

I told the actors they might need to push their volume a little bit during show, because once an audience comes in, their bodies will absorb some of the sound.

Cut to show time and both the actors on stage were really loud! I wouldn't say screaming, but they were the loudest they could be. To a point where I started turning my faders down.

In the interval, I went backstage and asked “Why are you pushing yourself so much? You don't need to, you're all very loud.” And they said they couldn’t hear anything, so they assumed the audience couldn’t either.

And that’s the downside of having a dead space.

 

Is there a play that you have watched where you felt, damn it, I wish I had done the sound design for this play? Or an OTT show or film? Not because the existing sound design was bad or whatever. But because it inspired you.

A still from The Encounter

It's a play that I watched on YouTube. As in, it was being performed live but available on YouTube. Complicite’s The Encounter. Every time I think about it, I can hear the sound design in my head. I mean, I would love to do a play as immersive as that. That's one that really comes to my mind.

Film-wise, there’s a German film called Zone of Interest. I was like, what is this? It's a crazy sound design! Relentless! It almost numbs your ear. But you can’t stop hearing it. It keeps you going.

And there’s an Indian show called Trial by Fire, I really like the sound design there!

Oh and there’s a moment in Oppenheimer. When the trial bomb actually goes off. You are so used to a big blast, an explosion of sound. And in that scene, there’s suddenly a second of no sound. It's quiet for a second, and then you’re hit with this incredibly well-designed sound of a bomb blast. So good!

Does knowing so much ruin your experience of watching plays and films? I'm sure you must be paying so much attention to soundscape and sound design and sound effects and music… Are you able to watch anything normally?

Films, yes. Because I can always rewatch them if I’ve missed out on plot in favour of sound design.

Theatre, no. I can always tell when levels are off, or when a cue is missed, or an actor is ad-libbing. So, most times I kind of struggle.

And Mona, who's my girlfriend, she enjoys every single thing that she watches. Especially plays. And she's been a theatre goer far before we met. So, whenever I watch with her, I try and be like her where I just sit and enjoy. Because she'll keep reminding me that somebody put so much effort for two months, they've been rehearsing.

And I'm like, “Yeah, even I do that.”

But that’s a different story.

Okay we’ll move on quickly. Do you also compose music for plays you design sound for? Do you make tracks?

In films, you'll have a separate composer and a separate sound designer. When it comes to theatre, music ends up becoming part of sound design.

A clip from 305, Galli Mantola where music, effects, movement, mood and story come together.

I'm not a composer myself; my music knowledge is limited.

So, if it's a proper composition like a musical score or underlay, I end up either collaborating with somebody who will bring in those musical elements; or if it's stuff I can source online, like royalty-free... I do that. It’s also budget and time dependent. Composing music can be expensive and takes time.

There are a bunch of websites with royalty-free music and they're actually pretty good. But you have to know what you’re looking for and listen to a lot of tracks to find what you want.

Recently, though, some of the tracks… I made them on AI. That’s really helpful because I don't have to actually sit and listen to 50 tracks of royalty-free music. And I could actually be specific in my AI prompt and tell it what I want and how I want it. AI for me is a new journey, but so far it’s been really helpful.

I’m also quite a nerd, so I will watch YouTube interviews of sound designers where they’re talking about their process for a film. There are also magazines and channels like Sound on Sound or Production Expert that are specifically to do with sound.

I usually end up watching two or three videos about a new software or a new way of doing something, including now, AI.

And what kind of music do you listen to generally in life? What's your selection?

The album cover of The Race for Space

My music taste is fairly eclectic, that way. I'll listen to anything and everything. I don't particularly like the new age Hindi film music - whatever's happening nowadays.

I think my go-to is obviously good old Pearl Jam and Radiohead, stuff like that.

But I also like obscure or offbeat stuff.

Like there's a band called Public Service Broadcasting who do concept albums; they use old news recording from history and add music to that. They have an album called The Race for Space, about America and Russia during the Cold War and the race to conquer space. And they have one for World War II as well. Too good!

Amazing. Adding to my playlist. Okay, last couple of questions. Among all the dozens of shows you’ve worked on, is there a favourite that you have of your own work?

The F Word, I think. That's where I found my groove a little bit as a sound designer. I figured out exactly how I want to go about designing my play. It was like finding my voice.

Now tell me about Red. It’s your favourite play, yes? Why? What is it about?

I love that play! It's written by John Logan.

Okay, I'll give you some context first. I am not somebody who grew up with art. Looking at paintings and stuff is not the environment I grew up in. At all.

So, there is a certain level of indifference that’s present, because you are generally indifferent to things you don't fully understand. And then I read this play. I think QTP got a copy of it and I ended up reading it at the QTP office, which at the time was Q's house.

And it made me want to go and look at every single thing Mark Rothko has ever painted. It's about Mark Rothko and him taking on a young new assistant, their dynamic, how the dynamic grows.

It was so engrossing! I couldn't put it down. Even after I was finished, I wanted to continue reading it. And I read it like multiple times.

Oh, I'm sure like there are other texts that may be far superior to this.

But this play made me interested in Mark Rothko, whose paintings are as abstract as it can get. You know, it's just f**king red paint.

So, from a person who kind looked at art like “What is this thing?” to going, “Oh, I see an xyz shade of red. How has he painted it?”

The fact that a play took me on that journey, and not when I watched it, just when I read it! It kind of blew my mind. I recommend everyone read it, at least once.

And lastly, what is your wish for Akvarious for the next 25 years?

Well first, I think they should do a production of Red.

I think it's just for them to keep going. They're one of the few theatre companies that are always working on shows and not just in Bombay, all over! That's something that I really admire about them.

That and the fact that they’re all such lovely people to work with – the family and the extended family.

And I hope that over the next 25 years, they actually get returns on the amount of work that they've put in in places like Nagpur, Goa, Baroda, Kolkata, everywhere they’ve been trying to go and build an audience. So, I hope they actually reap the benefits of all the hard work they've done in these 25 years.

Reserved but not shy.

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